- Joined
- Jul 11, 2008
- Messages
- 1,571
- Reaction score
- 184
- Points
- 63
This guide is for bettors who want to understand when Yankees offer value versus when they're just expensive ways to lose money slowly.
The appeal of Yankees is they provide insurance - you don't need all four selections to win for a return. Two winners gives you a double, three winners gives you multiple doubles plus a treble. But that insurance comes at a cost. You're staking 11 units, and if only one or two of your selections win, you're likely losing money overall. The math only works when you're getting winners at decent prices, not when you're backing short-priced favorites.
Breaking Down the 11 Bets
Understanding exactly what you're betting helps clarify when Yankees make sense.
Say you pick four horses: A, B, C, and D. Your 11 bets are:
**Six doubles:**
- A and B
- A and C
- A and D
- B and C
- B and D
- C and D
**Four trebles:**
- A, B, and C
- A, B, and D
- A, C, and D
- B, C, and D
**One four-fold:**
- A, B, C, and D
Each bet is for your unit stake. If you're betting £1 Yankees, you're placing £11 total. If you're betting £5 Yankees, that's £55 total stake.
The structure means you need at least two winners to get any return. One winner and all 11 bets lose because every combination requires at least two horses to win. Two winners gets you one double. Three winners gets you three doubles plus one treble. Four winners lands everything - six doubles, four trebles, and the four-fold.
How Returns Are Actually Calculated
The calculation isn't complicated but people get confused about how the odds compound.
Say your four selections are at 3-1, 4-1, 5-1, and 6-1, and you're betting £1 Yankees (£11 total stake).
**If all four win:**
Each double pays out the two odds multiplied together plus your stake back. The 3-1 and 4-1 double pays: £1 x 4 x 5 = £20. You calculate this for all six doubles.
Each treble is three odds multiplied: 3-1, 4-1, 5-1 treble pays £1 x 4 x 5 x 6 = £120.
The four-fold is all four odds: £1 x 4 x 5 x 6 x 7 = £840.
Your total return is the sum of all successful bets. With four winners you're collecting on all 11 bets, which at those prices would return around £1,600-£1,700 on your £11 stake.
**If three win (say A, B, C):**
You get three doubles: A-B, A-C, B-C
You get one treble: A-B-C
The other doubles, trebles, and four-fold lose because they all include D.
At 3-1, 4-1, 5-1, your three doubles return maybe £130 total and your treble returns £120. Total return around £250 on £11 stake. Solid profit.
**If two win (say A and B):**
You get one double: A-B
Everything else loses.
At 3-1 and 4-1, your double returns £20 on £11 stake. You've lost £9 overall despite getting two winners.
This breakdown shows the critical problem with Yankees - you need at least three winners to make meaningful profit unless your two winners are at very long prices.
The Price Point That Matters
Whether Yankees are profitable with two winners depends entirely on the odds.
Two winners at 2-1 each: Double returns £1 x 3 x 3 = £9 on £11 stake. You've lost £2.
Two winners at 4-1 each: Double returns £1 x 5 x 5 = £25 on £11 stake. You've profited £14.
Two winners at 7-1 each: Double returns £1 x 8 x 8 = £64 on £11 stake. You've profited £53.
The breakeven point for two winners is roughly both horses at 3-1 or one at 2-1 and one at 5-1. Below this you're losing money even with two winners, which defeats the purpose of the insurance structure.
This means Yankees only make sense when you're backing horses at decent prices - ideally 3-1 to 10-1 range. Backing shorter prices means you need three or four winners to profit, and at that point you might as well just do trebles and four-folds with smaller stake and bigger returns.
When Yankees Actually Make Sense
Yankees are situational bets that work in specific circumstances.
When you have four genuine fancies at 3-1 to 8-1 that you think are overlays - actual chances better than odds suggest. The Yankee structure means if three or four win you're getting excellent returns, and if two win at those prices you're still profiting.
When you're betting competitive handicaps where picking one winner is difficult but identifying several live chances is manageable. The Yankee provides coverage across multiple outcomes without needing to nail one specific winner.
When you want structured accumulator exposure with some insurance. Straight four-fold on the same selections costs £1 but returns nothing unless all four win. Yankee costs £11 but gives you returns on two or three winners. The extra £10 buys you insurance against one or two losers.
When you're at the track for a full card and have identified four horses you like across different races. The Yankee creates entertainment value across multiple races rather than having four separate win bets that succeed or fail independently.
The worst time for Yankees is backing short-priced horses. Four selections at 6-4, 2-1, 5-2, and 3-1 - even if all four win, your returns are modest relative to the £11 stake. And if only two win at those prices you're losing money. Yankees on favorites are expensive ways to achieve minimal returns.
Yankees vs Other Multiple Bets
Understanding alternative structures helps you choose the right bet for your situation.
**Patent (seven bets across three selections):** Three singles, three doubles, one treble. Cheaper structure at 7 units, and the singles mean one winner gives you something back. Better for casual bettors who want returns even with one winner. Worse for expected value because singles dilute your money into lower-returning bets.
**Lucky 15 (15 bets across four selections):** Adds four singles to the Yankee structure. Costs 15 units instead of 11. One winner returns something via the single bet. Most bookmakers offer bonuses on Lucky 15s - double odds on one winner, 10% bonus on three winners, etc. These bonuses can make Lucky 15s better value than Yankees depending on bookmaker.
**Canadian/Super Yankee (26 bets across five selections):** Five doubles, ten trebles, ten four-folds, five five-folds, one six-fold across five selections. More coverage but 26 units stake. Need at least two winners to return anything, three to profit. Only makes sense with larger bankrolls.
**Trixie (four bets across three selections):** Three doubles and one treble, no singles. Seven units cheaper than Yankee. If you're confident about three selections and don't need four-horse coverage, Trixie is more efficient.
For most situations where you have four fancies at decent prices, Yankee is cleaner than Lucky 15 because you're not wasting stakes on singles that return minimal profit. But if bookmaker bonuses on Lucky 15s are generous, the extra 4 units stake might be worth it for the bonus potential.
The Each-Way Yankee Trap
Each-way Yankees double your stake to 22 units because every bet is placed twice - once to win, once to place.
This sounds like good insurance because you get place returns even when horses don't win. The problem is you've doubled your stake and place returns are typically one-quarter or one-fifth of win odds depending on race terms.
Each-way Yankees only make sense in very specific situations:
- Highly competitive handicaps with 16+ runners where place terms are one-fifth odds for four places
- Your selections are 8-1 to 16-1 longshots where place returns at one-fifth odds still give meaningful value
- You genuinely believe all four selections will place but aren't confident about wins
Most of the time, each-way Yankees are expensive bets with modest returns. You're staking £22 to potentially win back £30-40 if you get some placed horses. The return on investment is poor compared to straight Yankees at better prices where you're targeting wins.
The math works differently if you're betting big handicaps with true longshots. Four horses at 12-1 each in races with one-fifth place odds means placed horses are returning 2.4-1 in the place portion. Get three placed horses and your place doubles and treble can return decent money. But this is niche situation, not default strategy.
Common Mistakes With Yankees
Bettors mess up Yankees in predictable ways that cost them money.
**Backing favorites:** Yankees on horses at 6-4, 2-1, 9-4, and 5-2 creates a situation where you need four winners to make good profit and two winners likely loses you money. The prices are too short for the structure to provide value.
**Mixing prices poorly:** Three longshots at 10-1 plus one favorite at 6-4. If the favorite and one longshot win, your double returns okay. But if two longshots win and the favorite loses, you've probably lost money overall despite getting two 10-1 winners because you staked on combinations including the favorite that failed.
**Not accounting for total stake:** Betting £5 Yankees feels like modest stakes but you're placing £55. Three bets later in the day and you've staked £165. The total outlay adds up faster than single bets because of the multiplier.
**Chasing losses with bigger Yankees:** Lost money on Saturday so betting £10 Yankees on Sunday to get even. Now you're £110 in per bet, and if results go wrong you've compounded losses rather than managing them.
**Ignoring correlation:** Picking four horses trained by the same trainer or four favorites in the same type of race. Your selections aren't independent, so if one loses the others are more likely to lose too. This destroys the insurance value because your bets fail together instead of independently.
The smart Yankee strategy is four genuinely independent selections at prices between 3-1 and 8-1 where you've identified value. Anything outside those parameters and you're probably better served with different bet structures.
The Banker Concept
Some bettors identify one "banker" selection they're confident about and structure their Yankee around it.
The idea is if your banker wins, you've got three potential doubles, three potential trebles, and the four-fold all live. If your banker loses, everything fails, which concentrates your risk.
This creates weird psychology where your entire Yankee rides on one selection being right. At that point you're not really spreading risk, you're concentrating it. You might as well do trebles and a four-fold with smaller stakes rather than paying for the full Yankee structure that becomes worthless if the banker fails.
The whole point of Yankees is spreading risk across multiple combinations. Treating one selection as a must-have banker defeats that purpose. If you're that confident about one horse, back it to win for bigger stakes and use smaller Yankees on other races without forcing everything through the banker concept.
Calculating Returns Quickly
You don't need to calculate every combination manually. Online calculators exist, but understanding the shorthand helps.
For each winning combination, multiply the decimal odds (not fractional) and multiply by your unit stake.
3-1 in decimal odds is 4.0
4-1 is 5.0
5-1 is 6.0
Your 3-1 and 4-1 double is: £1 x 4.0 x 5.0 = £20 return
Your 3-1, 4-1, 5-1 treble is: £1 x 4.0 x 5.0 x 6.0 = £120 return
Add up all your winning combinations to get total return. Subtract your total stake to get profit.
Most betting slips or online interfaces calculate this automatically. But knowing the method helps you estimate potential returns before placing the bet. Four selections at roughly 4-1 each - you know if all four win you're looking at £1,500+ returns on £11 stake. If three win you're looking at £200-300. This helps you assess whether the potential return justifies the risk.
When To Skip Yankees Entirely
Yankees aren't always the right choice even when you have four fancies.
When all four selections are in the same race, you obviously can't do a Yankee. You're limited to singles or a forecast/tricast if you're trying to combine them.
When your four selections are all short-priced favorites at 6-4 or shorter, don't bother with a Yankee. The returns are terrible relative to stake. Just do single win bets with bigger stakes if you're confident about favorites.
When you only have strong confidence in one or two horses and the other selections are marginal. Don't pad a Yankee with weak selections just to reach four horses. Better to do singles or doubles with proper conviction than a Yankee with two solid picks and two guesses.
When your bankroll doesn't support the stake. If £11 per Yankee is meaningful percentage of your daily betting bank, you can't afford to be doing Yankees regularly. Stick to simpler bets with smaller stakes until your bank grows.
When you're having a bad day and trying to get even. Revenge Yankees trying to recover losses typically involve worse selections at worse prices with bigger stakes. This is how bad days become disasters.
The disciplined approach is limiting yourself to 1-2 Yankees per week maximum, only on situations where you genuinely have four horses at decent prices that you've handicapped properly. Yankees should be occasional structured bets, not default approach to every race card.
FAQ
How many winners do I need in a Yankee to make a profit?
You need at least two winners to get any return, but profitability depends on odds. Two winners at 3-1 or better usually profits. Two winners at 2-1 or shorter typically loses money because your one successful double doesn't cover the £11 stake. Three winners at moderate prices (3-1 to 6-1) usually returns 15-25x your stake. Four winners at those prices can return 100-150x stake. The minimum realistic target is three winners to make Yankees worthwhile.
What odds should I target for Yankee bets?
Sweet spot is 3-1 to 8-1 per selection. Below 3-1 and you need too many winners to profit. Above 10-1 and you're relying on multiple longshots hitting, which is unlikely. Four selections around 4-1 to 6-1 creates balance where two winners breaks even or profits slightly, three winners returns excellent profit, and four winners is massive return relative to £11 stake.
Is a Yankee better than a Lucky 15?
Depends on context. Yankees cost 11 units, Lucky 15s cost 15 units (adds four singles to Yankee structure). Lucky 15s give returns even with one winner via the single bet, and many bookmakers offer bonuses on Lucky 15s that improve value. If bookmaker offers double odds on one winner or percentage bonuses on multiples, Lucky 15 might be better despite higher stake. If no bonuses, straight Yankee is more efficient because you're not wasting stakes on singles with minimal returns.
Last edited:
