Online Petition for the 'Right 2 bet'!

[Pearcey]

Hi all


When the E.U was formed one of its aims was to provide an even playing field for businesses and consumers, by removing regulation in industry. This has happened in many industries - but not the gambling industry, which is still faced with heavy regulation all across the continent.

An example is in the Netherlands - supposedly one of the worlds most liberal countries - which allows its citizens only to bet on horse racing and the lottery, through a single state owned provider.

As such a new petition has been started, aiming at giving all European citizens the same 'right 2 bet'. This would obviously have a positive impact on existing punters, as new bookies spring up, competition will increase and better prices and intro offers will no doubt be the result. You can sign this petition at http://www.right2bet.net

 

[BgFutbol]

I live in Bulgaria and I can bet on everything, even though there were some stupid people trying to make Eurofootball(the company that owns all betting shops in the country) the only possible solution, which means you cant bet online.
I will sign this petition to help you.

 

[Pearcey]

Cheers BG - but don't you think its slightly wrong that all Bulgarian bookies shops are run by one organisation? If there was several competing you'd probably get better prices!

Hope they don't take your online sites away!

 

[joynkey]

Good Luck!
You can try this website!

EDIT: Please don't spam the forums.

_________________
"Betting is my passion and I won't stop it!" Very Good!

 

[BgFutbol]

Yeah, its totaly wrong. But that's the reality... I use online bookmakers for that reason.

Cheers BG - but don't you think its slightly wrong that all Bulgarian bookies shops are run by one organisation? If there was several competing you'd probably get better prices!

Hope they don't take your online sites away!

 

[kajamix]

Greetings to my Bulgarian friends from Greece.
As this looks like a somewhat old thread, I hope some of you will revive it.
I have discovered right2bet only recently and my initial reaction is to support.

For some time I was trying to find such a movement of European citizens by searching the internet, but only the American "Gambling Rights America" was coming out in my searches. Only recently someone told me about rigth2bet and I did sign the petition.
right2bet should have been more thorough when submitting their website to the search engines and in any case some more thorough organizing is called for.

Many people seem to like the idea but at the same time others are not so sensitive. We should all be sensitive because prices is the A-Z in betting matters and we are being treated badly by the monopolies.
The criticism against right2bet is that they are connected with bookmakers companies. This is what I heard from some other people.
In my opinion this is a not so valid criticism because without strong alliances you can do absolutely nothing, but right2bet should have it in mind.
But the truth is that some other bookmaker companies are against (this is the latest information I have) and this is no good news.

In reality the issue is one of consumer rights.
Market freedom also plays an important role but it is about consumer rights.
The situation is like that in the American west, with the 4-zero roulettes, when the Indians were still around fighting with the cavalry. Whereas the scoundrels who were doing that were eventually tarred and feathered -when law and order was established- in our case the monopolies cheat, cheat and cheat again and someone has got to stop that !

 

[BgFutbol]

Hello, my neighbour, I do not know a lot about right 2 bet, but having connections with the bookmakers doesnt nessesary mean that its bad like you mentioned. Infact its needed as they need to represent us, the normal people, if they dont have connections this would be impossible.
I like some of your examples and I want to say that the market in Europe is really better than in USA. We have better online bookmakers. The USA players can play only at intertops, bookmaker and a few other sites and that really hurts the bettors, while we can use the betting exchanges like betfair and normal bookies like bwin and bet365.
I wonder what americans have to say about their rights...

 

[kajamix]

I don't disagree with you bg.
But some will try to undermine, so I report what I heard in the grapevine.
Anyway, the monopolies will in any case accuse us of beating our wives and I 'm ready for that !

In my opinion the right of the citizen to fair prices was very much understated throughout the prolonged legal battle. You have to start from that not leave it for the end.

At this juncture I believe right2bet should be split into autonomous national groups, under the central umbrella. All those interested should start making bloggs.

As for the Americans, they are against restrictive legislation of course.
But the "bible belters" were for it.
Anyway from what I 've seen, those who appear on tv holding the bible are mostly heretics.

 

[BgFutbol]

I was really surprised that Real Madrid werent allowed to wear the bwin logo against Bayern Munich.

From Right to bet: http://www.right2bet.net/community/blog ... ew-low.php

Slumping to a new low in German - Spanish relations, the Munich authorities also threatened to fine Real €50,000 for non-compliance if they could not get their shirt changed in time.

The decision was taken to prevent German fans from seeing the branding of Austrian-based bwin, despite the online bookmaker being a legal provider licensed under EU law.
The Spanish giants had agreed to play the tribute match in honour of German legend Franz Beckenbauer, and as gesture of goodwill, had fielded a strong first eleven.

 

[kajamix]

BWIN are trying to get into some of the new regulated markets, eg. France.
I was surprised to see their banner in the recent Olympiakos Piraeus - Maccabi Tel Aviv match for the E.L. (btw Oly managed to be disqualified by the Israelis once more !). In Germany the reception was different though, it appears.

Whatever the case may be and alhough not a lawyer myself, I don't understand why this is not treated like a consumer issue first and foremostly.

In Greece I claim the unofficial title of being the first person ever to bet with fixed odds.
Why is that ?
Because in the year 1990 I had an English friend as guest. So I asked him to phone London and place a wager on my behalf on Germany to win the world cup and he did. Nobody else knew of this type of betting back then !
It was in the year 1994 that people became interested, with Greece managing to gain a place in the world cup finals, in the USA.
Some advertisements of bookmaker services then started to appear in the press but the state company OPAP were not even thinking to organize the betting themselves and they sat back like fools and watched.
Two years later, in 1996, a law was passed to make those advertisements illegal.
It was in the year 2000 that OPAP created his own betting coupon and almost simultaneously, people began to place bets over the internet also, which was becoming a household item by the time.
I thought, there is going to be a "fair gambling act" of some sort for us punters taking part, but in vain ...
It was, and is, daylight robbery.
If bank robbers ever start a 090 telephone service, we will be talking to them I guess and say "please gentlemen come and rob us" (another one of my examples !).

Now I decided to start a blog and I 'm working on it and I will mail you the address of course. As for material I have plenty, scattered around. At the same time I support right2bet and expect them to become more active.
I just hope people will start listening and overcome their fears.
It is not even like asking them to go on strike.
If you do go on strike, over an issue related to your job, I dare say that an element of danger always exists to you and your family. But in this case what can the monopolies do ? Start abducting people and forcing them to gamble ?

 

[BgFutbol]

"I thought, there is going to be a "fair gambling act" of some sort for us punters taking part, but in vain ...
It was, and is, daylight robbery."

The situatuion is the same in alot of countries. In Bulgaria we have only one!! legal bookmaker and that is eurofootball, they are absolute monopolists and have 100% of the market. They give crap odds and people still bet with them. Later in the years after 2000 and especially after 2005 a lot of people started to bet online and that number is growing every year. Now eurofootball, a company which owner is so powerful wants to make the online gambling illegal, for a reason that a lot of money go abroad( I doubt it as the eastern europeans are the best to make money from betting). I still cant believe they will succeed to do it, but you never know in countries like ours.


And the first greek to place a bet, that is really interesting

 

[kajamix]

It looks very much like I was the first.
We had the "footballs pools magazines" then. They claimed to know everything under the sun and one day they decided to start publishing the so called "illegal odds from Italy", as a means of predicting the outcomes of Italian matches that is. But it was all wrong. They were not summing up properly !
The English knew, the Cypriots knew (because they have connections) but in Greece nobody !

As for money going abrod, we are in the EU are we not ?
Ages ago we had currency restrictions on everything.
I wanted to buy some college textbooks that I needed as a student and I had to beg for permission. The officials were usually granting such permissions but they were also making it abundantly clear they did not want to see you very often.
Now it's different. We wanted to be in the EU, we are in it and we have to accept the pluses as well as the minuses.
But again is it not the monopolies to blame ?
What are their prices and where is their technological competence indeed ?

It's goog talking to you but also other Greeks should help the effort and I hope they will start turning up and join the discussion.

 

[A_Skywalker]

Hello, kajamix, you are welcome to invite more greeks to the forum to discuss this, as far as I know you are the only one for now and the forum is still generaly new, we are working everyday to increase the members and visits of the forum, we have a lot of visits, but rarely someone registers and more rarely someone writes. I guess people are lazy in 2010.

 

[kajamix]

Yeah, sure.
I 'll try to make a mention to other peoples I know with sports interest.

Meanwhile have those guys at right2bet abandoned ship ?
Instead of Bulgaria's flag in their front page, they have a red x (they uploaded the png file instead of the gif file). But it's been like that for weeks.

 

[BgFutbol]

I guess its just a mistake and they are lazy to fix it.

 

[ForzaItalia]

I will sign this, but I dont see how it will change something. A small number of people decide how things are and not on petitions.

 

[kajamix]

I will sign this, but I dont see how it will change something. A small number of people decide how things are and not on petitions.

Now listen.
Don't knock it.
If you expect a 1,500,000 crowd in the centre of Madrid (Milan - Moscow - Leningrad), then you are dancing in the air.
We fight dogged resistance in the trenches.
In my book it is and remains a job for the law experts and we can help from the sidelines (provided of course those law experts get their heads together).

I don't run right2bet -I wish I could- so I talk of their mistakes also.
They did not advertize themselves properly.
Yesterday I talked to two prominent sports journalists and they did n't even know of it !
They say betfair helps them but in betfair blogs it is not even mentioned (holy cow !).

 

[ForzaItalia]

Well, anyway how does my signing help them ?
Its not a big thing and if I can do it for 1-2 minutes its not a problem.
Betfair wouldnt tell if they have connections with such institututions, I mean its better for them if they simply dont mention it.

 

[kajamix]

Well, anyway how does my signing help them ?
Its not a big thing and if I can do it for 1-2 minutes its not a problem.
Betfair wouldnt tell if they have connections with such institututions, I mean its better for them if they simply dont mention it.

Politicians care about their popularity.
Last summer (June 2009) the New Democracy Party introduced a 10% tax on all kinds of betting in Greece. The opposition PASOK party was against it and they went to produce a -parliamentary- petition bearing 60 signatures ! New Democracy did not have time to put that law into action because pm Karamanlis decided to hold a snap election. You know he lost by record 10% margin ! It was n't very good for him, but I am certain 2-3% out of the 10 was because of that law !

When PASOK formed the new government, they did introduce the same tax after a few months, a somewhat watered down version but now they threaten with more !
At the same time they are into drafting an internet law, so we have double threat. No internet and more taxes for the bettors of the national companies. They might have said "we regulate internet and we make things a little better for you in return", but no ! The information we have is that the hardliners are in charge of affairs.

I can't be optimistic but I just think that if we make noise it will shake the politicians a bit.
Also if the economic results of the tax-storm prove negative in the end.

I believe if the unfair nature of this sort of excessive taxation and the vindictive lowering of prices is challenged by the legal experts, something may come up.
They were talking about market freedom, forgetting the consumer.
But their line of approach failed, even if they think it was the correct line.

After all everything is about prices and about fairness.
If Greek OPAP gave me Argentine v. Mexico at 1.40 and the internet also 1.40 (instead of 1.50), then why bother ?

right2bet made a lousy internet campaign, if so many people who place bets every day of the week still don't know the website.
It can't possibly be said that they did well.
When "we say make strategic alliance with bookie" it's promotion we have in mind. Whate else ???
Who cares what the monopolies say ? After all they are going to say that we are even beating our wives, are they not ?
In reality the companies who do not support maybe desreve criticism. Not those who do support !

 

[BgFutbol]

Many things can be said on the topic, I dont have the time to write all.

"If Greek OPAP gave me Argentine v. Mexico at 1.40 and the internet also 1.40 (instead of 1.50), then why bother ?"

Yes, if the local bookies offer the same odds noone would bother to bet on internet, but they are greedy and want to take more money, even when they are winning millions.
There is a thin line, The government fucks the local bookmakers, the bookmakers fuck us in the end with those odds. Okay, we use internet bookmakers and everything is fine, but wanting to fuck that up too is ******.
I dont see a freedom, and there should be as we live in democratic countries.